"The life you want... your best life now... look great feel great..."
Not exactly the headliner you would expect from three very influential pastors (including pastors of the two largest congregations in America).
I've always wanted to ask Creflo, Joel, or Joyce what they think about Paul's exhortation to be heirs with Christ, on the condition that we suffer with Him (Romans 8:16-18). I've heard countless statements by faith-teachers that monetary blessings are ours in abundance. But I rarely hear any of them teach a sermon on Jesus' sufferings that are ALSO "ours in abundance" (2 Pet 1:5)?
Christianity is not a gumball machine. In my recollection, we have been purchased by Jesus' blood (Acts 20:28), making us bond-slaves of God (1 Pet 2:16). We are not our own, we have been bought with a price in order to glorify God (1 Cor 6:19, 20). Although we have access to every spiritual blessing in Christ (Eph 1:3), our purpose in life is to glorify God (Rom 15:5-9). The height of humanistic tendencies is our pursuing of the best possible life for ourselves, or to feel good.
Here is our instruction for these, Christian:
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Amen.
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8 comments:
AMEN!
haha thats so ironic, my mom and i were just watching a bunch of things about benny hinn, creflo dollar, and joel osteen. everything u thiinking we thinkin!!
Only Brothers and sisters in Christ shot each other. You are a very talented yopung man.
I would suggest you look further into thier ministries, and the fruit worldwide that is being produced.
You might also consider getting Brother Creflo's new seris A Servant's Heart.
May I suggest u read the love chapter in I Cor.
Sincerely, Lynn
Lynn Eager-
Thank you for your insight; I do appreciate contributions to this blog. Thank you also for your compliment.
I have a question: how far into their ministries do you suggest I look before you feel I have an adequate foundation for this post?
I was raised in a Word of Faith (faith movement) church since the day I was born, being brought up by these teachings before I was old enough to do math. I studied under teachers like Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, Jesse Duplantis, Rodney Howard-Browne, Gloria Copeland, and Fred Price for 16 years, marinating in their doctrine (if that's what you want to call it) every day for most of my childhood and teenage life.
That's not counting the 6 years of strenuous study I have done on the movement upon rejecting it for being a false gospel.
Is that further enough?
And thank you for the reference to 1 Corinthians 13. I am intrigued most of all by verse 6 which says ...[Love] does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the TRUTH, which is the source of this blog.
As for you my friend, I would like to give you some passages to study as well:
Galatians 1:6
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:1
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Thank you for reading my blog.
-Chris
Dear Chris, I will be the first to admit, babies, people with wrong motives etc. and sincere people have gotten out of balance. Dr Hicks with the Four Square has a book on Balance or are u against the Four Square church too. I would highly suggest you look ALOT closer, before u pass judgement. Have there been abuses misapplied teachings. People going of with one sentence and trying to make Our Heavenly Father the great slot machine. YES YES but I can assure you if Brother Hagin Sr., is fully listened to along with Joyce and Creflo they are not saying what some would suggest. Many are bitter because they think they tried that and it did not work. You must act because it has become revelation knowledge to you. I guess your against Dr. Lester Sumrall too., maybe Amiee Simple Pherpson(SP) started Four Square. Where does Jack Hayford fall as u are passing judgement?
I know the years Brother Hagin spoke faith and in the natural it was not yet apparent. Do u know how he was raised from the death bed at age 16. That as a child he never ran and played as other children due to his illness. He died at least twice as a church member and descendant down into hell, his mother and grandmother prayed him back into his body.
Did u know Joyce Meyer Ministries in concert with Hillsong spent all of last July in the country of Cambodia. Doctor's I know personally went. Joyce Meyer has a number I do not know how many but orphanages where they have committed to support them for 30 years. Little children who are being sold into the sex trade at age 4-7 years/ they bring a very high price for men going there from here and other area's. But if they find there way to one of these orphanages they are provided with a loving Christian home, Food, Clothing training in all area's.
Time does not allow me to continue at this time. I will look at the scriptures you sent. If I sent you Creflo's new teaching on a servants heart would u listen to it? If so I would love to send it to u as a late BD gift?
You have some great teaching gifts and talents. If u really believe these people are false why can not u be as Paul who rejoiced that Christ was preached.
Joel Osteens Father helped establish a work in India called IET u might look it up on the web. That church still supports this ministry. They became partners with PG Vargis in the early 70"s. God has used Brother Vargis to start around 5000 churches in northern India, which this area known as the missionaries graveyard. He also has orphanages, bible schools, schools for street children to come in and learn basic things and be fed, more outreaches.
Committed to putting the Devil out of bussiness and Bringing Mankind to a relionship with the true owner of this earth. Which is only by and through the blood of THE LORD JESUS!!!
-
Lynn-
You continue to ask me to look closer, and I understand that, but you still haven't given me an adequate answer for HOW CLOSE? I was a worship leader at a word of faith church. Is that close enough? Leadership? And yes, I can relate to your contempt with people that use God as a great slot machine. I abhor it as do you, but I think you are under the impression that I am speaking from bitterness and bad experience. This is not the case. I was a WILLFUL follower of the Word of Faith Doctrine. My parents were children's minister's, and I was raised at West Coast Believer's conventions since the age of 5. By the time I was a preteen, I was defending my beliefs against those who would disagree (much like you are doing). There was no bitterness involved. There was no moment where I was disillusioned by being poor. In fact, I'm more poor now than I ever was as a believer in Faith doctrine. Really, it's the truth that I'm after.
You say that if Joyce, Creflo, and Hagin should be fully listened to, [because] they are not saying what some would suggest. But Lynn, you know that's irrational, right? Hagin, Joyce, and Creflo are not subtle in their teachings, and not afraid to be straightforward. What exactly are you refering to when you say what some suggest? Unscriptural teachings are not hard to distinguish, since they fall out of line with Scripture.
To answer your question, yes I knew that Hagin claimed to be raised from the dead at 16. Remember that I grew up in this movement, and have had Hagin lay hands on me as a child. I am aware of Hagin's claim of seeing hell. This is actually unbiblical, considering Luke 16:26 tells us there is a great chasm fixed in Hell and it is impossible to come over from there to us.
Concerning Joyce Meyer...That's awesome that she is doing those ministries. I support and love those things, and I agree that's really awesome that she has a love for those kids. I hope you understand that this blog is not about services she or any of these people have done, but rather of the doctrine they TEACH. The Bible is explicit when it teaches that you and I (and all Christians) are to confront these things when they do not line up with Scripture. And I would argue that they do not.
I'm certainly not going to hinder you from sending me a book. But I am going to compare it to Scripture anyway, as I have done all his (Creflo's) writings and teachings.
I really want to address this question you had:
"If u really believe these people are false why can not u be as Paul who rejoiced that Christ was preached."
The reason I am not rejoicing in them, Lynn, is because I do NOT believe that Christ is being preached. I believe they preach a different Christ, and a different gospel. That is why I refute it so heavily. If it were some minor theological dispute (like women pastors or predestination) I wouldn't really care because in the end, as you said, Christ is still preached. But from MY 2 decades of very knowledgeable experience, he is NOT being preached. He is being belittled, and dethroned. The prosperity message is only the icing on the cake...there are far worse things being said behind the pulpit. That is the reason for this blog.
Agin, I think it's wonderful that Joel Osteen is doing great things for the Lord, but it is not the things that he DOES, but rather the things that he TEACHES that are wrong.
I too, was not too far from your zeal in these men and women. I fought hard and long to defend them, and it was only by the tremendous power of the Holy Spirit that I was enlightened to the truth of Scripture.
Now, I find it hard to ignore trying to speak up for the truth that I know.
But of course, you are still my sister in Christ. And it is biblical that we reason together(Is 1:18).
Thank you for reasoning with me
-Chris
Hi Chris, It has been a very long busy day.
In reference to going to hell.
U used the example of Lazarus and the rich man. That was still under the OT. Believers were held in Abrams bosom until Jesus rose from the dead. Then he led them into the presence of the Father. That can not be applied to this dispensation and the fact that we are living under the new covenant not the old. But even under the old Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead.
We are in the 6th dispensation. With the 7th yet to come.
If u do a word study on hell you will find at least 3 levels of that place made for the Devil and his angel's, but unless we (the church) reach them with the gospel. Meaning good merry news that makes us leap for joy. Mankind is forgiven, Christ the 2nd Adam has thru his Death Burial and Resurrection opened the door wide to all. Key it is a free gift but must be received or mankind will follow Satan to an eternal hell. John 10:10 clearly states the mission of our Lord vs. the mission of the demonic kingdom.
Blessings, Peace and Grace to you as we seek to knoe HIM AND MAKE HIM KNOWN TO OUR WORLD. Preach always use words when needed.
We His Body the Church are His Voice, Healing and Help to a world that needs to see JESUS IS THE SAME YESTERDAY TODAY AND TOMORROW.
Good night my Brother, we labor for the same Boss. Hopefully we live for only His approval. Dead to true praise, flatery that sounds like praise but it is the motive behind those words, but to hear Him say WELL DONE GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT!!
Do I know it all far from it. I am working out my salvation with fear(reverence) and trembling.
God is good, even his correction is good, because he loves us, as a mother what if I had allowed my child to play on the freeway>
I am maybe rambling, once again it has been a LONG day.
Good night! God Speed to You.
Lynn
Lynn-
I'm sorry you had a long day. I hope it has gotten better.
Concerning Lazarus-
It doesn't matter wether it was OT or not. Jesus is giving the account as a timeless truth. It happens to give graphic descriptions of Hell as being both impossible to get out, and very hot. Even in an OT setting, the rich man is still in Hell. So I do not see what difference it makes how you addressed this. If one takes a literal approach to Scripture, this is the most clear application. You would have to use Scripture to show me otherwise...and Hagin is not Scripture.
But this petty discussion doesn't matter. All this to state why I believe Kenneth Hagin's out of body (and in Hell) experience to be untruthful. I could go on and on on more pertinent things that he misses than this, so I will stop now.
I agree with everything else you said after that...except that those teachers serve the same Jesus I do. I know that I serve a different Jesus than they. I trust that you do also, and rejoice in that, even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.
Of course, this blog was addressed to them...not you:)
Have a wonderful week.
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